SOURCE
http://web.archive.org/web/*http://www.indiatogether.org/us/news/armitage.html
Bush administration to intensify ties with India:
Armitage
We need to go beyond post-98 sanctions:
Bush official
The Hindu - June 18, 2001
by Malini Parthasarathy
Mr. Richard Armitage, Deputy Secretary of State in the Bush
administration has a role in the new administration's making of foreign
policy that goes beyond that of a mere deputy to the Secretary of
State, Mr. Colin Powell. Known to be a close associate of Mr. Powell,
Mr. Armitage himself is one of the leading ideologues who have helped
fashion the worldview of the new Bush presidency.
During the Bush election campaign, Mr. Armitage was a member
of a close-knit team which called itself the ``Vulcans'' after the
Roman god of metal and fire, which hammered out the foreign policy
platform that Mr. George Bush took with him into the presidential
election. That exclusive group of foreign policy ideologues included
the National Security Adviser, Dr. Condoleeza Rice.
Mr. Armitage who also served in the administration of the President's
father, Mr. George Bush Sr. is one of the key voices in this
administration currently shaping the US policy towards Asia.
On Friday last, he sat down in his office on the seventh floor of the
State Department for a conversation with Malini Parthasarathy on US
policy towards India, Pakistan, China and how the new Bush strategic
framework would impinge on these issues.
Here are
excerpts from that conversation:
Malini Parthasarathy:
When you say that the Bush administration is going to put much more
meaning and content into the relationship with India, what exactly is
the point of departure from the approach of the Clinton administration
to India?
Richard Armitage:
I don't care to speak about the previous administration but my view is
that it took them seven years to get to the point that Mr. Bush has
gotten to in two months or so .... Mr. Bush said as a candidate over a
year ago that one of the emphases that he was going to have in foreign
relations was the development of a congenial , mutually beneficial
relationship with the world's largest democracy, and for the world's
largest democracy and the world's oldest democracy to have a
relationship is perfectly normal...and we have the basis for that
relationship, we both are multiethnic multireligious societies, both
democracies, we are both federations.
The Indian American community is a growing and exciting part of our
population, they have great political organisation skills, the hitech
industries exemplified by the fantastic activities around Bangalore and
in our three Silicon Valleys here are a very good basis on which to
move forward...
Second, India, at one time, historically, had a very broad view of the
world...Indian ships ranged far and wide....India had a global view,
not just a regional view but a global one. We believe India will be
having a global view again...there are several nations in the world who
really truly have a global view and we think India is about to have
that...
Malini Parthasarathy: Were
you very surprised, maybe pleasantly surprised that the
Indian Government was so warm about the NMD?
Richard Armitage: Well,
it's not NMD, it's MD..it's not national, it's an important
distinction, I was not so surprised, the reason was that on the
question of the unilateral reduction which we were suggesting, if
necessary, this is in line with the stated policy of the Indian
Government, on the question of nonproliferation... that is well known
to the Government of India... the question of counterproliferation was
not as well known but once it was explained, the Government of India...
we will continue to ...
On the question of actual missile defence, the fourth element is one on
which we didn't get an immediate endorsement because the Government of
India said they hoped we would not do this unilaterally -- that means
break out of the ABM treaty -- but they expressed a great deal of
understanding of the need.
Malini Parthasarathy: Given
that the Republicans and the Bush administration
have repeatedly expressed themselves against the idea of disincentives
(in US nuclear nonproliferation strategy) and an insistence on
adherence to the various nonproliferation regimes (such as CTBT and
FMCT), would the premises of the security dialogue shift? Would the
security dialogue continue as happened earlier between Mr. Strobe
Talbott and Mr. Jaswant Singh? Would counter-proliferation or missile
defence become the centrepieces of the security dialogue?
Richard Armitage: We
hope to have some cooperation...I felt that my discussions
with the Minister of External Affairs was a beginning for this
administration of a security dialogue and certainly my Secretary (Mr.
Colin Powell) hopes to continue that with him, we are about to enjoy
the visit of the National Security Advisor (Mr. Brajesh Mishra) who
comes here at the invitation of Dr. Rice (Dr. Condoleeza Rice) and I
look forward to see Ambassador Mishra again myself...so in a way we've
already started the security dialogue, it doesn't have to be held by
the same person every time..it's broadening out the interlocutors we
have both in India and India has with us here ...
Malini Parthasarathy: In
what way will the premises of the dialogue really change? Will
India see fewer strictures on the need to adhere to nonproliferation
regimes?
Richard Armitage: Well,
we still have in the United States nonproliferation
concerns and certainly hopes that the manner in which we go about
achieving nonproliferation goals will change a little bit. I have said
publicly that we need to get beyond the post-98 sanctions, I think we
will, with the support of the US Congress. We want to do that and we
will do that. And then there are other sanctions which we will have to
work with Congress over time to remove those as well...
Malini Parthasarathy: There
are some apprehensions in India that the Government of
India's endorsement of the broad principles of the NMD would accelerate
a China-Pakistan axis and an arms race in the subcontinent...your own
statement there .."you have problems in your own neighbourhood" ..in
the context of naming North Korea and Libya, could you expand on this a
little bit as to what you really meant in terms of Pakistan's own role
in the region and what are the implications of this for India and
Pakistan?
Richard Armitage: First
of all, I would not say that the Government of India
endorsed the NMD, those are your words, certainly not mine...! And I
wasn't there to try to get an endorsement, I was there as a beginning
of a consultation from one great power to another..and the consultation
was an exchange of views and I in return got India's views on certain
issues....
Now, on the question of an arms race, we haven't had discussions about
a strategic framework. I don't think a discussion between one country
and another brings forth an arms race... Tensions, misunderstandings...
these things bring an arms race...
What has happened in the wake of my visit, not because of my visit,
Prime Minister Vajpayee, right before he went to have his knee operated
on, extended a hand to General Musharraf who accepted it. A remarkable
gesture! Seems to me that's the type of thing that will prevent
possibly and certainly impede arms races. We are pleased that General
Musharraf has accepted this gesture by Prime Minister Vajpayee...I
don't know how far they'll get... we hope for the best.
Malini Parthasarathy: Your
statement on Pakistan... what exactly was meant?
Richard Armitage: Well,
I repeated that statement in the Financial Times that we
have some concerns and I have spoken to Pakistan about that but I also
want to make clear to you that it is not a private statement but a
public statement. For years, we had an unbalanced policy in South Asia
and people would look at it superficially and say we had a great
relationship with Pakistan but it was in a way a false relationship
because in the first instance, it was built against the India-Soviet
Union axis and then latterly, it was against the Soviet occupation of
Afghanistan. So we didn't have a policy for Pakistan, we had a policy
with Pakistan directed against something else, what we are desirous of
is for our Pakistani friends to try and develop a relationship about
Pakistan.. as you probably are aware, Pakistan's Foreign Minister
Sattar is coming, we look forward to discussions with him ..
Malini Parthasarathy: Would
you expect them (Pakistan) to be more forthcoming on
Afghanistan and be more credible in their assurances on cooperation on
getting Osama Bin Laden?
Richard Armitage: I
don't want to see Pakistan only through the lens or the prism
of Osama Bin Laden..This is my point. We want to look at Pakistan and
see what Pakistan thinks about Pakistan's future...obviously Osama, the
Taliban, the refugee problem....millions of Afghanis are suffering
terribly now.. the United States is taking the lead in providing
international assistance...$24 million last year...these are things
that concern us and we can't ignore them when we deal with Pakistan but
I don't want to have a relationship with Pakistan based on another
issue like Osama or Afghanistan...
Malini Parthasarathy: So,
what would be the strategic approach to Pakistan now?
Richard Armitage: We
are developing it, we are in the process of working it out, in
my view, for the first time, a relationship with Pakistan.
Malini Parthasarathy: You
mean no longer looking at it in terms of Afghanistan...
Richard Armitage: A
relationship...in and about Pakistan. There are implications
about Afghanistan but is not based against something. It's about trying
to get a relationship with Pakistan... you would certainly agree with
me that 140 million people in Pakistan deserve good governance..
Malini Parthasarathy: So
you will talk about democracy in Pakistan..?
Richard Armitage: We
are proud of democracy and there's a democracy right next door
to Pakistan called India, how can you not talk of democracy? Of course,
we have to talk about democracy..
Malini Parthasarathy: Now
on another aspect of this, India has always wanted to be
taken on board the international approach to Afghanistan, India has
wanted to be taken more seriously in the collective effort to formulate
strategic and practical political approaches to the situation in
Afghanistan, did something like that come up when you spoke in Delhi?
Richard Armitage: Well,
I certainly spoke about it, obviously our discussions were
private in nature but I spoke about it and my counterparts in Delhi
also spoke of that, I am not going to expose to you the inner workings
of our discussions. We have some concerns... all of us... and there is
a brand new concern since I returned from Delhi, the wearing of
distinctive clothes for Hindus, non-Muslims...
Malini Parthasarathy: In
the earlier scheme of things, India and the US had a joint
working group on counter-terrorism, will that process continue during
this administration? Or would the strategic premises of this process
also change?
Richard Armitage: I
don't think so...on counter-terrorism, the problems are
basically the same...we have to share views, share appreciations of the
problems and discuss efforts that we may make unilaterally or together
or with others as well to better the situation..
Malini Parthasarathy: This
is an often-asked question but in India there is concern
that the Government of India is allowing itself to set India up as a
countervailing force to China particularly as the US strategic approach
to China since your administration took over has become much sharper ,
more focussed and more critical than under the previous
administration...
Richard Armitage: First,
let me say that we see China as a competitor,
now that's not a negative word, we can seek more markets...these are
good things...and we want to have a friendly relationship with China, I
met with the Chinese Ambassador yesterday and explained this to
him...On India, our view of the relationship with India is that it
cannot be based against China or for that matter, against anyone else
if its going to be sustainable, if its going to be credible, if its
going to be politically sustainable at your home and in mine...then it
has to be about the US-India relationship and not directed against
China..if it were directed against China, no one in India would have
confidence that it would last.
Malini Parthasarathy: The
impression was fortified when you included India in your
whistlestop tour of friendly Asian capitals...does it suggest Delhi is
coming into the category of "friends" in your "friends and allies"
formulation, not an ally, but a potential friend...
Richard Armitage: I
think there's no question that we see Delhi as a friend, not a
potential friend...and we've always been able to have forthright
straightforward discussions even if we have different views, and that's
the best sign of friendship I can imagine...it was not appropriate that
I go to China given the state of our relationship at the time for
missile defence consultations...but we didn't overlook China. Mr.
Kelley (James Kelley, Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian
Affairs), my colleague here, did go to Beijing and have discussions
there..
Malini Parthasarathy: In
the new context, given the four elements of the new strategic
framework, is there going to be a bigger focus on counter-proliferation
than perhaps nonproliferation , or the regimes of CTBT or FMCT, in your
nuclear dialogue with India?
Richard Armitage: You've
got four elements, and at any one time, one element may be
dominant, for instance if we are exchanging information about some
exports of technology that could be used in proliferation, that might
be the most important element of our strategic framework at that moment
and we decide what we can do about it together, for it or against it
and at another time it might be traditional nonproliferation which may
be more important.. so there are four elements, any of them can be
dominant, depending on the situation. I must say I found a good deal of
interest in Delhi after the concept of counter -proliferation was
explained...
Malini Parthasarathy: Does
all this mean that the FMCT and the CTBT, are all on the
backburner now? The insistence on adherence to nonproliferation
regimes?
Richard Armitage: ...No,
well, some of them remain relevant... this is one of the
subtleties about moving forward with sanctions against India, we don't
want to do harm to our larger nonproliferation goals so we have to
approach it carefully with good justification. We don't want to wither
away somewhat effective international tools, the NPT and other things.
So this is one of the difficult challenges of diplomacy...we don't want
to give up our traditional nonproliferation tools..
Malini Parthasarathy: But
will you do it in a different fashion?
Richard Armitage: I
think we will put forth our arguments in a little different
manner.
Malini Parthasarathy: Will
there be less of disincentives and more of incentives in the
US nonproliferation strategies?
Richard Armitage: Well,
I don't think I like either of those terminologies..I think
there would be more reason in the discussion. My own view is that quid
pro quos, negative or positive, are not a good way to do business...
We will try to put our views forth in a reasonable way and we will try
to engage our Indian friends in good conversation without making it
seem that we are so judgmental upfront..
Malini Parthasarathy: On
Kashmir, the policy commitment that the issue is to be left to
a bilateral resolution between India and Pakistan remains, doesn't it?
What are your expectations in a general sense of the forthcoming
India-Pakistan summit and its possibilities?
Richard Armitage: I
think on the question of Kashmir, the US is becoming even more
sensitive to the subtleties and difficulties around the resolution of
the issues...we have the greatest admiration for the Prime Minister of
India reaching out and inviting General Musharraf for a discussion and
frankly for General Musharraf for accepting and that's the beginning of
a solution.
But it won't be one imposed from the outside and it's not going to be
that the United States is going to get in the middle of it.
going to get in the middle of it.
(See National
Defense Panel)
(-> Hollinger
Inc.) (See Virginia-Connection)
(See Jerome Hauer)
(See Hoover Institute)
(See Richard Perle)
(See Cfr) (See Defense Policy Board)
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